Does Mormon Brigham Young's racist statements bother you, as they do me?

"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race -- that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will be, until that curse is removed." - Brigham Young, Quotation from Journal of Discourses

Does Mormon Brigham Young's racist statements bother you, as they do me?
Yes, they do. However, Mormons will tell you that just because he said it doesn't mean they believe it...which goes against their believing that the words of the prophet/president are the words of God...


"I know that the Mormon (LDS) church's official stance on ALL races today is that they are to all receive the same blessings according to their faith and diligence." The key word is "today." That wasn't the case when the Prophet Brigham Young held the flock under his thumb. You claim not to pay mind to this because it was well over 100 years ago...The Bible was written 2000 years ago!!! It only takes a century for the Mormon doctrine to change. It's been 2000 years for Christianity. Plus, I've encountered LDS on this site that claim the word of the Prophet to be good enough for them, after all, it really is the word of God. Why, in the last 150 years had God been so confused? Does he have Alzheimer's? For almost two millennium he was solid, then Joseph Smith came along and claimed that God's mind was ever changing. One cannot trust in a faith that is constantly changing, one that has president's who override past presidents AND the doctrine itself.


***


The LDS keep saying that the remarks sound racist today, but that they didn't back in the 1800's. His words were the words of God...Was God racist in the 1800's? Why do you defend him with that answer when all you are really doing is claiming that 100 years ago, God was cool with racism?
Reply:I accidentaly click a thumbs up instead of a thumbs down. I cant say anything better than what was already said in the defense of teh church and Brigham Young. Report It

Reply:Yes and so do other important political and religious figures slurs that we actually look up to now of days. It was the past and ignorance was still in rule... GET OVER IT AND LEARN FROM IT OR DUMMIES LIKE YOU WILL DO IT AGAIN! Report It

Reply:How can they be a "prophet" and be so wrong?? Report It

Reply:OK SO SOME MORMON LEADERS HAVE MADE SOME ILL THOUGHT IDEAS IN THE 1800S BACK WHEN SLAVERY AND NEARLY EVERY WHITE PERSON WAS RACIST AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS PEDOPHILIA TODAY AND THE POPE IS HIGHER THAN CHRIST BY WAY OF INFALLIBILITY.. Report It

Reply:you should be careful to make a distinction between a prophet talking to the Church (it is from God) OR talking as a man to his friends and stating his opinion. I'm not sure what these remarks are considered to be, but it might help avoid confusion in the future. Report It

Reply:God doesn't change his mind, He has a plan for His children and that plan won't change nor has it been changed. a lot changed since Bible times...which is ok. not the message or the word, commandments of God changed though. Report It

Reply:yes, they bother me
Reply:Mormons are sort of...misled. Magic glasses and all that. I don't think they are really much of a threat, but it does sadden me to see children who believe in any religion without challenging the ideals of their elders.
Reply:Proves my point. The cure for religious fundamentalism is education.
Reply:What bothers me most is that people think that Joseph Smith or John Smith whatever his name, was a prophet.





That REALLY bothers me. And they didn't let african-americans into the religion until much later.
Reply:That was a very long time ago, and to the best of my knowlege, no longer beliefs held by the Mormon church.
Reply:I don't believe any culture is inherently cursed.





It is our relationship with God and what we do or fail to do about that relationship that puts us in jeopardy with God.
Reply:not really because if you think of it he is only telling the horrible truth of the situation. its sad but it is the truth. it may change in the future and lets hope to our God it dose but really sit and look at the world around you and you will see.
Reply:Absolutely. What bothers me more is that there has been no archaeological findings to support that the plants, animals, weapons, currency, events or cities mentioned in the Book of Mormon ever existed in ancient America. For those interested, see the link.
Reply:Mormons have some out-of-place beliefs.
Reply:Think about the time that Brigham Young lived in, and read the quote more carefully. Besides, it was just his belief. I've heard a lot worse. At least he didn't use the "N" word.
Reply:Obviously Brigham Young hasn't really studied his Bible, if he had he would first understand that there is no description of what Cain looked like, and that second that it was Noah who had three sons and each of them were of different ethnic backgrounds, even though they were all born from the same woman, Noah's wife. So then God must have wanted man to be of a variety. And Mr. Young's comment is really just out of ignorance not truth. And thus in that light it doesn't upset or bother me.
Reply:They don't bother me for a couple of reasons. Number one because he's dead and unless he repented he's on his way to the lake of fire. Number two because they reveal that he was in no way a true man of God.





However, what does bother me about his statements is that they are still available to twist and pervert the minds of people today.
Reply:Yada yada yada! A response from a true Mormon ahead:





First of all people, there is a lot in this world that is hard to understand. You start going back in time and it gets even more confusing. Brigham Young died well over 100 years ago. You could get many similarly 'bothering' quotes from other, otherwise respectable people of the time. People in business, US Presidents, hey, even a few "Abolitionists" had some rather interesting perspectives.





Heavens, do you all understand everything in the Old Testament? Gosh, there is a lot of 'mystery' quotes in there, eh? How about Lot offering his virgin daughter to save his own skin? He said, "Do ye to them as is good in your eyes." That is Genisis 19:8--but there are plenty more. How about the Bible saying that Cain was cursed? That is bothering isn't it? Well, that is in part were Brigham Young was getting it from. So what's the big deal? There is information that we don't understand. There are quotes that aren't politically correct in the year 2006. Should we dig up history and find some more? I'm sure we could dig up lots of dirt on ANY religion or church. Shall we?





I would encourage you all to take a closer look at the facts before you pass judgement. I don't understand what is up with the whole Cain curse stuff--but here is what I DO know. I know that the Mormon (LDS) church's official stance on ALL races today is that they are to all receive the same blessings according to their faith and diligence. We are all equal. Simple as that. You don't believe that the Mormon church really is really so unbiased? Well do some research from reputable sources--read up on official LDS doctrine. You are not going to find anything unless you try digging up quotes from 100 years ago. We accept all races. Africa is one of the areas of biggest growth in membership to our church.





Here is a place you can start if you want to know the truth about who we are:


http://www.mormon.org
Reply:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_supre...





From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Many white supremacist groups do not necessarily adhere to Christian Identity or other religious doctrines. Groups such as the American Nazi Party are largely politically, rather than religiously, motivated. The Ku Klux Klan (KKK), one of the most recognized white supremacist groups in the United States, proposes racial segregation that generally is not based on religious ideals, although some klan groups may be openly Christian Identity but accepting to other Protestants.





Many white supremacists still exist, yet congregate under alias groups of other names.








hmmmm interesting





It might interest you to know the Church of Jesus Christ was extremely anti-Klan, and the KKK "Grand Wizard" of Wyoming considered the Church of Jesus Christ to be it's "greatest enemy". It also might interest you Eldridge Cleaver one of the leaders of the original Black Panther Party became a Mormon in 1984 ;)














http://www.angelfire.com/mo2/blackmormon...


The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has never had any official doctrine that black people are 'inferior' in any way, shape, or form to people of other races. In fact, The Book of Mormon says quite clearly:





"And he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness, and he denieth none that come unto him, black or white, bond or free, male or female, and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God." (2 Nephi 26:33)


Have some Mormon apostles believed that "black people" were inferior?








Mormons do not believe that their Presidents and Apostles are infallible, nor all-knowing. They were the children of their times. Just about all Mormon Presidents and Apostles held the same views of black people as did the vast great majority of white Americans for their day and culture. Today, yes absolutly that is a racist view by the same beliefs were held by the vast great majority of other white Americans who were Catholics and Protestants and Jews.Does that make it right of course not!





since you are using quotes so will I





Joseph Smith (1st President of the Church) said in 1842:





"I have advised (slaveholders) to bring their slaves into a free country and set them free--educate them--and give them equal rights." (Compilation on the ***** in Mormonism, p.40)


He said in 1844:


"They [Negroes] came into the world slaves, mentally and physically. Change their situation with the whites, and they would be like them. They have souls and are subject to salvation. Go to Cincinnati or any city, and find an educated *****, who rides in his carriage, and you will see a man who has risen by his own mind to his exalted state of respectability." (History of the Church 5:217)


He also said:


"The Declaration of Independence 'holds these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal: that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.', but, at the same time, some two or three millions of people are held as slaves for life, because the spirit in them is covered with a darker skin than ours...The Constitution of the United States of America meant just what it said without reference to color or condition, ad infinitum!" (Messages of The First Presidency 1:191-2)


He said in 1844:


"Break off the shackles of the poor black man and hire him to labor like other human beings." (History of the Church 5:209)


Parley P. Pratt (Apostle) said in 1855:


"I love a man without regard to his country, or where he was brought up, without reference to color or nation. I love a man that loves truth." (Journal of Discourses, 3:182)


Brigham Young (2nd President of the Church) said in 1860:


"Negroes should be treated like human beings, and not worse than dumb brutes [animals]. For their abuse of that race, the whites shall be cursed, unless they repent." (Journal Discourses 10:111)


He said in 1863:


"Men will be called to judgment for the way they have treated the *****." (Journal of Discourses 10:250)





He said in 1944:





"America has the great opportunity to lead the world from political intrigue and cheap demogoguery, from national selfishness, from unrighteous usurpation of power, and from unholy aggrandizement. She must prove to the people of the world that she has no selfish ends to serve, no desire for conquest, nor of national or race superiority. When these ideals are established, America can blaze the trail and lead the world to peace." (Teachings of David O. McKay, pp.281-2)


John A. Widstoe (Apostle) wrote in 1946:


"The 'master race' claims are sheer poppycock, used by characterless men to further their own interestes. There has never been a monopoly of mastery in human achievement by any one nation. To claim so is simply to allow the lawless nationalism to run wild.***


The 'master race' doctrine of the late war was an ugly delusion, conceived by the powers of evil, whose prince is Satan, the devil." (Evidences and Reconciliations, pp.3-4)


President McKay said in 1951:


"George Washington Carver [famous African-American scientist] was one of the noblest souls that ever came to earth. He held in close kinship with his Heavenly Father, and rendered a service to his fellowman such as few have ever excelled. For every religious endeavor, for every noble impulse, for every good deed performed in his useful life, George Washington Carver will be rewarded, and so will every other man be he red, white, black, or yellow, for God is no respecter of persons." (Home Memories of David O. McKay, p.231)


Joseph Fielding Smith (10th President of the Church) said in 1962:


"The Latter-day Saints, commonly called 'Mormons', have no animosity toward the *****. Neither have they described him as belonging to an 'INFERIOR' race. (Deseret News June 14, 1962, p.3)


He said in 1963:


The Mormon Church does not believe, nor does it teach, that the ***** is an inferior being. Mentally, and physically, the ***** is capable of great achievement, as great or in some cases greater than the potentiality of the white race." (LOOK magazine, Oct. 22, 1963, p.79)


Bruce R. McConkie (Apostle) wrote in 1966:


"Certainly the Negroes as children of God are entitled to equality before the law and to be treated with all the dignity and respect of any member of the human race. Many of them certainly live according to higher standards of decency and right in this life than do some of their brothers of other races; a situation that will cause judgment to be laid 'to the line, and righteousness to the plummet.' (Isa. 28:17) in the day of judgment." (Mormon Doctrine, 1966 edition, p.528)


President Spencer W. Kimball (12th President of the Church) said in 1972:


"Racial prejudice is of the devil. Racial prejudice is of ignorance. There is not a place for it in the Gospel of Jesus Christ." (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p.237)


The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles issued this statement in 1986:


"We repudiate efforts to deny any person his or her inalienable dignity and rights on the abhorrent and tragic theory of the superiority of one race over another." (LDS Global Media Guide)


Elder John K. Carmack (Member of the First Quorum of Seventy) wrote in 1993:


"We do not believe that any nations, race, or culture is a lesser breed or inferior in God's eyes. Those who believe in or teach such doctrine have no authority from either the Lord or his authorized servants." (Tolerance, p.3)


Elder Alexander Morrison (Member of the First Quorum of Seventy) said in 1993:


"There is no place for racism in the Church. We abhor it." (Salt Lake Tribune, June 6, 1998)


President Gordon B. Hinckley said in 1995:





"We must not be partisans of any doctrine of ethnic superiority. We live in a world of diversity. We can and must be respectful toward those with whose teachings we may not agree. We must be willing to defend the rights of others who may become the victims of bigotry." (Conference Report, April 1995)
Reply:As a member of the LDS church in the year 2006, of course, his remarks sound racist. Would his remarks have been considered racist in the 1800's is a better question? I was not alive, but given the circumstances of the times, they might even have been considered mild. Did you know that Brigham Young, in the same Journal of Discourses, also said: "Negroes should be treated like human beings, and not worse than dumb brutes [animals]. For their abuse of that race, the whites shall be cursed, unless they repent." (Journal Discourses 10:111) "Men will be called to judgment for the way they have treated the *****." (Journal of Discourses 10:250)


Did you further know that the earliest church leaders called on slave holders to bring their slaves to free states and give them their freedom, citing the constitution as granting these rights to all men without regard to color.





Brigham Young's "racist" statement is merely his explanation of Genesis 4:15 which states, in part "and the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." The mark, if it is black skin, is not the curse. The mark was a protection from the Lord so that Cain would not be slain. The curse mentioned by Brigham Young refers to Genesis 4:11-14. In these verses, it is the Lord himself who places the curse, not Brigham Young. Again, they are not being cursed for being black, if that is the mark, they are being cursed according to their lineage or blood line as a result of Cain's murder.





With regards to Brigham Young's comments on the result of marriage to african americans, I must ask that you look at them in context of his doctrinal interpretations of Genesis. His explanation of the mark and curse should be sufficient for you to understand his meaning. It is not the black skin that is the problem, it is the belief that those with the mark have been cursed. In this light, intermarriage with those under the curse, would be construed as violating God's law. In the LDS church, we refer to sin as a form of death. In this light, his comments, while still sounding harsh, make complete sense. If someone knowingly mixed with Cain's seed, they would be subjected to the curse as well, incuring a spiritual "death." If you disagree with the doctrine, that is one thing. Brigham Young, however, was no racist.





Perhaps you should read the new testament account in Acts 10. This is when Peter is commanded to take the Gospel to the Gentiles. He calls them unclean. The angel has to repeat his dream three times before Peter accepts the fact that it was ok to preach to them. Twisted out of context, Peter's reactions could also been construed as discriminatory, unless they are taken in context with the laws and doctrines that he understood with regards to the gentiles.





It appears that your intention in posting this question was to encourage negative sentiment against the LDS church. If such is the case, why bother quoting something that you do not understand. Simply ask a question that will generate your desired response, like "Who thinks Mormons are racist, like I do?" or something a long those lines. I can't imagine you actually having read the Journal of Discourses. These types of random quotes are usually found on anti-mormon web-sites. If you actaully want to understand something, perhaps a better question for this would have been, "Brigham Young's comments appear racist, could a member of the LDS church help clarify why a Prophet would have said such things?" I don't mean to be patronizing, but a lot of the questions regarding the LDS church are framed in a very negative way.





I hope that this helps shed some light on these comments. If you have additional concerns, let me know and I will attempt to address them.
Reply:That's not all that bothers me about Brigham Young... How about his claims that men lived on both the moon and the sun? Also in Journal of Discourses.